Voicing Against the Banning of Lolicon Art #2 (Little White Butterflies Incident)
on April 20th, 2010 at 10:58 pm
Little White Butterflies has ended it’s stance and accepted it’s oppression.
I’m making this post to clear up some things so everyone can be made aware of the events that transpired over the last few days. I would also like to mention this post will be heavy on American Law, but thank you so much to those of you who supported this incident internationally. My sources for the most part are first-hand. For those of you unfamiliar with terminology we’re defining lolicon art, or simply “loli”, as 2-dimensional drawings of children in sexual themes or situations. This post reflects the issues, my dissent with the conclusion of Little White Butterflies, the actions of Google, and possible actions that can be taken against these accusations which have roots in thought-crime and violating freedom of speech. It’s a summary of the events if you didn’t exactly follow the events as they happened in my previous post.
1) The Internet Watch Authority (established for abolishing 2D lolicon artwork in the United Kingdom) finds the lolicon-doujinshi-translation Little White Butterflies.
2) The Internet Watch Authority reports the site to ChillingEffects.org, who submits legal claims to Google’s index.
3) ChillingEffect.org reports Little White Butterflies to Google, claiming the site contains child pornography and violates the following statute:
United States Code Title 18, Part 47 § 2256
(8) “child pornography” means any visual depiction, including any photograph, film, video, picture, or computer or computer-generated image or picture, whether made or produced by electronic, mechanical, or other means, of sexually explicit conduct…
This is where it gets a little messy. This legal claim is incorrect because of section 11 of § 2256
(11) the term “indistinguishable” used with respect to a depiction, means virtually indistinguishable, in that the depiction is such that an ordinary person viewing the depiction would conclude that the depiction is of an actual minor engaged in sexually explicit conduct. This definition does not apply to depictions that are drawings, cartoons, sculptures, or paintings depicting minors or adults.
However, in America, it is likely that the content on Little White Butterflies would violate obscenity laws, § 1466A
(1)
Which includes obscene as defined by the Miller Test. In the few applications of it’s use, the Miller Test is used to mark if an artwork is “seriously lacking literary value” or “obscene.”
Despite this, no Miller Test has been made on a national level or on Little White Butterflies content, so it is not violating any law (and it would take a jury to decide if it was) nor is it violating ChillingEffects.org claim in regards to the following.
“Google received notice of sites in Google’s search index that contained child pornography. Accordingly, Google reported the sites to NCMEC and removed them from its search index.”
4) Little White Butterflies learns of this and informs it’s readers, starting a Streisand Effect on the internet. A member of LWB makes a thread on Google’s forums citing the falsification of the legality leading to removal of their site from Google’s index. They ask if they can speak to a representative about the issue, personally.
5) The Streisand effect grows and many people voice their opinions on the banning of lolicon art in general. Laws are discussed and a very ethical-moral debate begins. Part of the record is available in my first post on this topic.
6) Google removes the thread. The former URL was: http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Webmasters/thread?tid=42ef23b063343df1&hl=en&fid=42ef23b063343df1000484a359c93246
7) Unable to contact Google or Fakku (who also waived their support of Little White Butterflies), LWB ends it’s attempt to rectify the incident. They make this post making it very clear they have no further desire to continue the issue.
I would again like to clearly outline my problems with this incident. They do not end at the events themselves.
- Google does reserve the right to remove what they want from their index (even though doing so is clearly a form of corporate censorship – another topic all together). However, the reason they gave was clearly false, making the removal a voluntary act of censorship. This is contradicting to what they have said in the past about not supporting censorship and being for net neutrality. Obviously, it’s not good business practice for a company as strong as Google to be voluntarily acting in hypocrisy.
- If you honestly believe that someone deserves to go to jail because they like sexually deviant art, you are horribly mistaken. Any art, any writing, even if it made me want to gauge my eyes out on sight has value. Someone took the time to show their impression of what humanity is capable of (even at it’s absolute darkest). If only we could start a 21st century Rennaissance.
- Thought-crime. Saying lolicon art hurts children is saying that every reasonable rational adult citizen is on the verge of snapping at seeing this and will immediately want to go out and re-enact it on sight. That takes the blame off people who do actually rape children, sympathizes with rapists, and puts the blame on art. I’m sorry, I think higher of my race.
It honestly saddens me.
What I would like to see done:
-Google formally revoke the index removal. At first I thought, why not just have them at the very least (though I have moral issues with it), change their legal reason for removal be due to obscenity claims. But if you think about it logically, they would have to remove every website from their index that might possibly fail a miller test. That would easily filter half the internet, without doubt. Honestly, their only option is to reverse the decision if they don’t want to have false claims on their website.
-That is though, of course only in response to this specific issue. Totally and completely, support for organizations like the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund and Yes to Freedom. The Miller test (As part of the Protect Act of 2003) is an obvious infraction against the first amendment because it on itself is saying words or artwork can be deemed “obscene” in the eyes of the law, claiming that any artist or writer might be prosecuted for what they say, write, or draw.
-Obviously, I would like to see some people give Google a call (maybe if enough of us call this incident will be brought up to their representatives) or write their local statesmen (law and government is more important overall than this specific issue) about issues they have regarding obscenity laws or otherwise aforementioned. If there’s anything I’ve learned from this whole thing, it’s that feeling and reason to fight. It’s to gather, organize, and not hide. I may be make a few posts about this in the future, as I don’t intend being silent about this slow oppression any longer. Internationally (at almost every major country) this is becoming a topic in law, and we should act. It sounds cliche, it sounds cheesy, you’ve heard it before, but now I know why it’s always said, and what our forefathers have intended for us.
Growing up in the Bush administration, I always felt the government treated the citizens as people who cannot do anything for themselves. Because of that, I’ve never felt important or capable in the government as a citizen. But that’s not true any longer. Those red stripes on my flag mean a bit more, now. Just the mere thought of the people who willingly gave their lives for this freedom when I can find dozens who support the idea but won’t speak up because of social fear. Those people gave their fucking life.
It’s hard to find someone willing to write a letter with their name on it, now.
I finally understand why it’s such a big deal.
While I myself do not like the Little White Butterfly site, when I found out that Google was doing this, I was mortified. I had been looking for some breakdown of the situation, and I am glad you gave such a thorough chain of events. While this doesn’t exactly seem like a big deal to most people outside the anime and manga community, this is one small unnoticed step in a direction I don’t think we want to be heading. Wen things like this happen, I am always reminded of the book 1984. While some might argue that Little White Butterflies only hosts obscene content, the sudden censorship they received without proper justification is not right. What surprised me even more after this event was Baka-Updates sudden account disabling from Adsense. While they are not removed from Google’s search engine, this event gave me the same uneasy feeling that the LWB event did. Again, to anyone outside of the manga community this might not seem big, but I do not like where things are headed with Google.
I’m not about to completely ostracize Google for what they did, but I think they should do something to rectify the issue. Unfortunately, Google isn’t a *government*, so the terms “censorship” (for their own tool) and law don’t *need* to be addressed.
I saw the power of people who really respect freedom the night on that Google forum thread, and am fairly upset I was only able to get one page archived. There were some serious themes, moral, and law discussions going on after-wards (but it did digress at a point, so I’m not surprised they deleted it either.)
Regardless, Google is a huge corporation with a big direct effect on almost every American’s life (and very much so internationally), so it’s obvious that a hypocritical action or statement is not a *good* thing. Unfortunately, despite the obvious they *technically* didn’t do anything wrong since people can’t define what a *good* or *bad* thing for a company to do is.
But, apparently they can decide what *is* or *isn’t* obscene…if people don’t stand up their government is going to fight on the side they don’t want them too.
As a side note, I read 1984 as well, I can definitely see where you draw the parallels, which is why I mentioned thought-crime. They control the content, but are not government, so it’s hard to do anything.
Lets not forget, their lawyers could easily argue in any court the term *censorship* would imply that Google *is* the entire internet, which it legally isn’t, even if it effectively is in use of the internet.
Already wrote a letter to the state representative and congressman =^.^=
Can’t really say that I’m passionate about this issue, but I sincerely wish for your success. And don’t worry, your campaign may not have any obvious results as of now, but things ARE building up and people ARE becoming more aware. Here’s an example I came across: http://kurogane.animeblogger.net/
I wholeheartedly believe that every person should hang onto their beliefs whether it is with their life or not. There should never be anything wrong with voicing ones opinion no matter how much bias there is against it, which is why there should never be anything to bring your argument down. Please don’t give up your beliefs right until the end of your campaign.
Seriously, Komidol, try living in Singapore. You’ll get that feeling every single day. And sadly, no one died for our independence. That is the saddest part of all.
No freedom of speech (or very limited freedom of speech), no press freedom (but we do get the BBC, so it’s okay, kinda), criticizing the government, even on policy issues, has a good chance of getting you sued, jailed and made bankrupt, and everyone believes in materialism.
And what I’d like to see done is more people to stop using Google, period. Stop supporting it’s ad services, stop using all it’s wonderful apps, stop even saying Google. It’s the only thing that’ll get them looking.
You might want to check out this blog:
http://l7world.com/2010/04/google-sponsors-child-pornography.html
Seems as though the more recent bans and censorships might be related to this guy emailing companies that use google as their online advertiser. For sure it seems as though this is directly related to MangaFox removing their yuri, yaoi, lolicon, and shota related material but I can’t say for sure if its directly connected to the whole Little White Butterflies censorship.
You guys are attacking this issue from the wrong angle. Write all you want to your congressmen. Make all the blog posts you want. It won’t do anything except rattle a few sabers that nobody cares about.
This is capitalism. Find a way to make 2d drawings of loli profitable.
Japan has found a way, so it’s legal there.
America hasn’t found a way, so it’s illegal there.
Soon as you find a way to make enough profit off of it, it’ll become legal rather quickly.
@FallenHeaven I’ll be doing the same (I’ll probably draw up a letter everyone can send in the next week or so), good work and nice to hear from yah.
@drmchsr0 I know about the major issues going on at Singapore. I really hope you guys do have an armed revolution there, to show the rest of the world what it means in this day and age. But it’s even worse when people die for your independence but everyone forgets about it.
As for Google, you know cuil.com is a pretty good search engine.
@Danbo Yes, I thought the MangaFox topic might have relations in this action. If you search around a bit, you’ll find a lot of examples of action against general hentai. “Obscenity” laws are by far the worse, which is why we must fight them just not at our own countries, but internationally.
@Rob There have been plenty examples in history of the government working against what makes the economy money. You’re point of view is highly conservative, and actually quite disturbing. The government works directly to put regulation on corporations (especially large ones) specifically because they’re putting profit ahead of the general health of the citizens. This is what government is for, to *govern*.
You’d might also be fairly surprised to see what fierce controversy the topic has in Japan due to international pressure as well. In coming months they will vote directly on a ban about the issue, in Tokyo.
You see, fattierob, this is the way people fight. They don’t take up arms in violence against the people opposing them anymore. They fight on this field, so people can enjoy rights and not hurt each other. Congressmen are not super-powerful figures that listen to nobody. They are representatives for the people, and you have your own who’s representing you. If you don’t like it, you contact them. It’s their job to listen to you.
And even if you refuse to accept what I say, anything on the internet is “profitable” to ISPs, anyway. So by your logic anything on the internet should be profitable and not banned. And little known fact, if you go to Japan, it’s not legal for *you* there, because American citizens are bound by American federal law no matter where they are on the planet.
Capitalism and Government are designed to have ways for you to fight what you want, as any citizen. Not to mention, we’re the first to fight on an international field, since in part this whole thing was spiraled by the UK.
I hope no one ever shares your opinion that seems targeted at inspiring uselessness.
A conservative viewpoint is certainly not a bad thing, you know. It’s just that kids our age are encouraged rather a lot to be liberal about a lot of things. Getting involved is a good thing – and it’s what separates an individual person from the masses.
Also, I don’t see how on earth capitalism is designed so that people can fight to change something, especially in light of the issues of the last year or so, so if you could clear up that point it’d be nice.
The point fattierob is trying to make though, I think, is that is actually IS a lot harder to affect the government now than it ever was before, because of how bloated the country, its people, and its government have gotten. Another reason it might be hard to raise enough attention to this specific issue is because it really is a touchy subject for almost everyone: child pornography. We’re all part of the minority, so we can clearly see these issues as separate, but what about everyone else? When a middle-aged governor or congressman gets a letter on this kind of topic, it’s a little hard to imagine them taking it all that seriously. Again, it’s touchy, and in the meantime they really *are* trying to settle a lot of other problems(and if they’re not, that’s another problem right there).
So I think that, in order to cause a big enough effect, we need to not only hold down the fort – this blog, for example – but do something bigger that will get more people’s attention. Just look at what happened with Scientology. The protests, AFAIK, are but a shadow of their former selves and not even worth mentioning anymore, but honestly, the damage has been done. A whole hell of a lot of people think Scientology is a silly money scam now that they’ve done that.
Anyway, those are just my random thoughts. I’m not sure I plan on commenting again, because it’s bound to get long and drawn out with Komidol here, so.
Well, I do my best to reply to all comments I feel I can add something to, and worked fairly hard to collect all the data so we can get an accurate representation of what happened. Of course it will get long and drawn out, talking about all the issues helps.
At the same time, I try not to sound too defensive on certain things, but I will in order to argue opinions that are un-informed and against action. Simply, if you do nothing, or say there’s nothing a small group than to, than you’re accepting whatever happens against your will. In addition, it’s harder for a bigger group to form or act when small ones simply don’t. It just doesn’t happen overnight, and this is what I was trying to explain to Rob.
But, Darkslime, in response, I will say being conservative is not a bad thing in certain situations – when you want to conserve, and maintain things. However, the specific google issue aside, we are dealing with a matter of liberal freedom and art (that is, the obscenity laws in place). To restrict/regulate things (as the UK is doing, and has always done), is pretty much the exact reason we broke off from them 230+ years ago. But the history lesson aside, being liberal isn’t just about trying to be different or breaking the norm, it’s granting people personal freedoms. The reason why I said the opinion was conservative and disturbing is because it’s an extreme. Extremes don’t work for any sort of government.
“Also, I don’t see how on earth capitalism is designed so that people can fight to change something, especially in light of the issues of the last year or so, so if you could clear up that point it’d be nice.”
The heart of capitalism is consumer choice and freedoms. Simply, if you don’t like how corporations are selling/buying/acting then you can open your own business, or give your business to people who are selling/buying/acting the way you would rather them do so. Would you buy from a merchant selling the same item for 10$, or 100$. However, this is why big business like Google or Walmart can be a problem. How can you open a small general store right next to a walmart? How can you use other search engines or email that aren’t google offering clearly superior tools? I mean, if you can’t find it on Google, it might as well not be on the internet.
It’s when things like this happen Government steps in to regulate in the interests of the people. That’s why I said “Capitalism and Government” are designed for freedom, not just Capitalism. They have to work together as one being. Which is why I said they do possess ways to have you fight for what you want.
darkslime: Hence a general boycott is necessary.
See what happened when Penny Arcade told everyone about their censorship problems. American Greetings’ profits went down by HALF. So it’s possible to use the free market against corporations.
Shame I can’t use that method against Singapore. Too much good rep.
I have read the thread and i think that both side have bad arguments
For exemple someone who see nishi iori’s(a mangaka) drawings can’t say that it’s an innocent work depict full grown women.You can’t say that it’s real, but you can’t say that it’s an innocent thing just because it’s a drawing. It’s actually children who are drawing even if you can’t call people who look and people who drawing it criminals.
It only counts as obscene because people are so butthurt they completely ignore the artistic merit of these hentai which should be so strong that it’s obvious. It seems we can accept anything as art nowadays but when it comes to something we hate, we’re fucking elitist about denying people their opinions of artistry.
Perhaps we should just outlaw EVERYTHING that has no artistic merit, see how people like that.
These troubles wouldn’t exist if we avoided outlawing media in the first place and kept to using evidence of RL to bust the producers instead of making evidence a crime in its own right, it’s a slippery slope and the canary in the mine, but nobody heard it croak.
Wow it’s amazing to see so many people against Lolicon. Which I have to say isn’t the worst thing in the world or even close. I love lolicon, so I can’t support your cause, but I may understand where you may be coming from.
Though Lolicon depicts children with eyes the size of plates, with purple, green, or any amount of odd colors of hair. Even if the Loli character can change appearance and suddenly grow older, shorter, taller, or just disappear. Even though they don’t feel pain, nor do they feel enjoyment, because amazingly enough they aren’t real.
I do not support child pornography, it’s sick and wrong to think some one could do that to children. If Lolicon looked like real life children I would not watch it or like it. Most pedophiles collect real child porn that they search days on end to find. Real things, that really hurt someone and really does mess up a real life. Instead of fighting something that is not real, it would be better to fight something that really is doing harm.
Maybe you should be trying to get this banned http://www.dannychoo.com/post/en/962/Japan+Lolicon.html, it’s something that is happening in Japan right now, and one day it could get in America. This has to stop, this is what makes pedophiles want to go out and do something. I was shocked by this and I do not support it in any way.
Lolicon is not bad, because it is not real, they don’t look real,they can’t be touched, they are only on the screen where everything is fake. Loli characters are not the problem, the real problem is real children. Instead of thinking about something that doesn’t really matter, use your time for something useful that really will make a difference. Americans are probably getting videos like these shipped in left and right, this is what really has to be stopped.
So I’m done, I don’t have anything else to say. Look up the link, it really is disturbing. It really does need to be stopped. Spread the word about that, because it is doing more harm then anything loli could ever do. If any one replies I’ll make sure to respond because there are much more worse things going on in real life, to real people.
MissMay, pedosexuality (yes, it is a SEXUALITY, there is actually no such thing as a paraphilia) is a normal sexuality that there is nothing wrong with. All of the ‘problems’ from people being ‘molested’ (and it’s usually more honest to call it having a consensual relationship with a teenager or adult) comes from the reaction of society, the intervention of the parents, and the reactions and pressure put on the so-called ‘victims’ by the police.
I will be blunt: had sex with adults as a child, loved it, don’t see anything wrong with it and STILL DO NOT SEE ANYTHING WRONG WITH IT! It is simply time to realize that pedosexuality is the new ‘boogie man’ that society is picking on because they have to have a sexuality that is ‘off-limits’.
It’s time to simply legalize all sexualities, from bestiality to pedosexuality to homosexuality and MOVE ON!
Stop trying to force people to fit into your little boxes, you have no right to do that, and if a child TRULY TRULY T R U L Y doesn’t want to be having sex with someone? THEY WILL FUCKING WELL TELL AN ADULT! Then….. BOOM! Relationship stopped and NO NEED for criminal sanctions.
You’re all entitled to your opinions, however please keep the focus of the post in mind. I have a firm belief that art is an expression of humanity and should be protected in all ways, but that is because it fosters thought, hurts no one, and has no victim. The same is not true for people do molest children. You’re physically and mentally hurting the child for years to come, as they do not have a real “choice” in the matter (often sadly mislead by close family members). By creating pornography of it you’re even worse forever embarrassing the victim in every person who sees it. I could never support that in any way, shape, or form.
I just wanted to make that radically clear given recent comments from those outside of the anime-art sphere.
Great stuff komi, afraid I was late to the party; keep up the good work.
yeah its still child pornography and it should be banned, censored, and illegal. and go ahead and call it art all you want because thats exactly what other pedophiles call their photos of nude children. flat chest and lolicon are not the same lolicon is a term that describes an attraction to UNDER-AGED girls so get it strait.
Police figures indicate 187 children were the suspected victims of physical and sexual abuse in the first half of this year. Eighteen children died.
The report also found that cases of child pornography in the same period had risen by about 60% to 599 cases.
thats in japan, so much for lolicon.
P.S. I hope and pray that your sick campaign against banning lolicon art utterly fails! :D
Though I’m aware of most of the things going on about this, it IS and probably ALWAYS BE something that starts in the US, because of some officials/companies who ban stuff or get things legalised or whatever you call that in English.
First of all: these so-called ‘humans’ who get agitated/sexually aggressive because of some pictures need to be locked in some kind of institution for insane people. What happens now is that EVERY healthy citizen is limited in his/her freedom.
Second: US law is on certain points no longer about the US, but about every other country. Because Google is an US company more or less monopolizing internet traffic, stuff that get banned in the US will also be no longer for US only but will be a worldwide problem.
Third: Whatever you call porn another may not call it so. There is a statue in Belgium you might wanna check out before you start shouting that everything is child porn…. or make the US government BOMB Belgium and that includes EU headquarters as well (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manneken_Pis). And it’s not only that. Art from late 18th century also show pretty much nude pictures of families. All you need to do is using that very same Google and typ in as search command “16th century painting”. Now start bombing Google themselves for showing that kind of art (which is just as nude as loli or even more nude!).
There is a big difference in the sexualization of children (child porn) and the “worship” and “desecration” of the idealized image of a girl (lolicon).
One involves actual children, the other is, well, indicative of how close Japan is to a total meltdown.
In fact, Japan has a big problem that they refuse to acknowledge, let alone tackle. And no, it’s not about how fucked up (for lack of a better term) their culture is.
Postwar Japan never really did discover their identity in the world after the bomb. They were so busy trying to rebuild they forgot about discovering who they really were. And no, it’s not just about old Japan. That lead to the militarization of the nation and it’s eventual defeat.
Whatever problems Japan has are symptoms of Japan itself not knowing what it is, and clinging to the remnants of a destroyed culture. (While artifacts and practices may exist to represent the lost culture, as long as people don’t truly believe it as a whole, it’s considered destroyed. Going through the motions is NOT considered practicing it. The Japanese don’t fucking believe in their culture enough to revive it.)